INTERVIEW
The Amazing Evolution of the Experience Economy Over the Last 25 Years
With Joe Pine – Co-founder, Strategic Horizons LLP
The impact of digital experiences in the Internet, nascent in the mid nineties, has only served to accelerate and amplify the shift to experiences.
Joseph Pine, thought leader, academic, and coauthor of “The Experience Economy” and multiple other works talks about the fact that twenty five years since the book was first published, those years have done little to diminish the original idea. And in fact, the impact of digital experiences in the Internet, nascent in the mid nineties, has only served to accelerate and amplify the shift to experiences.
In addition, COVID has clearly been an inflection point for how everyday people think about experiences as opposed to just simple product consumption. And Joe makes the argument that AI will have a similar impact through its potential to create massive degrees of personalization of services and experiences.
Our evolution to an experienced economy remains one of the most enduringly powerful ideas of the last thirty years.
Richard Owen
So obviously my first experience with your work was when you published the original Experience Economy, which I think was 1999, so I’m dating myself now. Although in some ways…
Joe Pine
Yeah, we just celebrated the 20th anniversary a couple of weeks ago. So yeah.
Richard Owen
That’s amazing. And like a lot of really, really good business books and the Experience Economy was a really good business book. It stands the test of time in the sense that you could read it today and it would pretty much be as relevant. I know there’s been potentially some updates as well, but it’s as relevant today as it really was back then. And it certainly had a profound impact on me and we can talk a bit more about the circumstances around that and its impact on Dell computer in the 90s. But.
Perhaps I’ll just start by asking you to sort of give a perspective over those 25 years. What you think has changed, if anything, from your original thesis? Or to what extent has it simply come about as predicted?
Joe Pine
Well, a couple of things. One, you know, I always say we were not predictive. We were telling what was going on then, but you didn’t yet see it. Right. And once you open your eyes, once you understand it, that you see this shift from goods and services to experiences going on. And and over the last 25 years, there isn’t, there isn’t any principle, any framework that wasn’t validated in the book. All the two subsequent editions, you know, kept everything there, added some things.
And there were some examples that didn’t make it or don’t sort of apply today. Obviously, the number one big thing that has changed since 1999 is the use of the Internet and the web and smartphones and all that digital technology. And again, it doesn’t invalidate any principles, but it extends some in how you do things. So like we talked in the book about how important the five senses are.
Well, you know, generally when you’re talking digital, it’s audio and video. You can do the other three senses. There are ways to do it, but they’re much more difficult, they require separate equipment and that sort of thing. And so one of the things we talk about, for example, you need to mix in memorabilia to your experience, but you need to add media, right? And you need to, you can’t engage the senses. You can invoke the five senses and so forth. But that and social media, the rise of that are two big things. I remember when smartphones first came about, I said, the worst thing you want is for somebody to open up their smartphone and get out of your experience. Well, with the rise of Instagram and all of that is, no, you want them to take it out, take a picture of it, want them to use that to remember. I noticed also over the last four or five years that people are using the word memory when they mean the word photo.
I took a memory of that. You took a photo to enhance your memory, but I find that very interesting how that’s going on. In the last 25 years also, you just continue to see that shift from how much less employment manufacturers have today than they did 25 years ago, how much less service had today, how much innovation there is in experiences. You know, 25 years ago, there weren’t.
Escape rooms did not exist. There wasn’t this term competitive socializing. There weren’t places where you go practice your golf swing with food and drink and putch acts and top golf and ax throwing bars and all that sort of thing. We didn’t have the notion of immersive art experiences like Meow Wolf or Van Gogh experiences and so forth.
So there’s a whole new set of genres of experience that have arisen since we published the book. So those are a couple of key things. Now, of course, AI is such a big deal. We’ve got to be thinking about how that applies to everything as well.
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Escape rooms did not exist. There wasn’t this term competitive socializing. There weren’t places where you go practice your golf swing with food and drink and putch acts and top golf and ax throwing bars and all that sort of thing. We didn’t have the notion of immersive art experiences like Meow Wolf or Van Gogh experiences and so forth.
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Richard Owen
Yeah, and I do want to touch on AI, but I think a couple of other interesting things that occurred fairly recently. I mean, first of all, there was a lot of research done that said that people are increasingly realizing that they value experiences over things. So if you do sort of the core cognitive research, you discover that what really counts for people at the end of the day are experiences. And I wonder whether or not COVID in some ways supercharged this phenomenon.
In some ways, COVID was a period of deprivation of experiences. You were sort of left with, yeah, you could consume products, you could get stuff, but the experiences we’re all used to, whether it was dining out at a restaurant or going on vacation, that’s what we really took away from people during COVID. And so this whole concept of kind of revenge travel and this surge in people wanting to consume experiences, just look at the travel industry.
Joe Pine
Exactly.
Richard Owen
Right? The premiums that people placed on this was a, perhaps that was a reflection of people once deprived of experiences, perhaps became more conscious of the high value of those.
Joe Pine
Yeah, I mean, you’re exactly right, Richard Owen. There as a result of COVID, there was huge pent up demand, right? Because we could not do it. What we really miss is those shared experiences that we could have with our loved ones, with our family, with our friends, our neighbors, our colleagues, even complete strangers in arenas and so forth. And we couldn’t have that. And so that tremendous pent up demand basically meant that almost every sector of the experience economy, that opened up after the pandemic immediately filled to capacity. People wanted to go out there, they wanted to be there, they wanted to be with other people. But I also see that there was a shift also from increasingly not wanting the, what I’ll say is the mere memorable, to merely memorable, to be a true distinctive experience, it has to be memorable, but also people wanted highly meaningful experiences.
Experiences that really touch them, that emotionally engage them, that were more involved with others, that hit them where they live in terms of what they’re trying to do in their own lives, what they’re trying to be in their own lives. And now also from not just memorable and meaningful, but also to transformative experiences, experiences that change us in some way. So there’s this gradation of experiences and increasingly because of the pandemic and it had been happening already but I think that that boosted it that jump started it and accelerated it to go from memorable to meaningful and then even transformative experiences.
Richard Owen
Do you think that when you look at the arc over these years, do companies, have companies embraced this as a practical philosophy in ways you expected? Or is it a case where, as you often see in business, 10 % or 5 % of the companies really get this and they go off and they do very, very well and they tend to dominate. And there’s this sort of big lagging sort of effect where a lot of companies for a variety of reasons never quite sort of catch up.
Has that been your experience?
Joe Pine
Yes, largely. That’s the way it goes with this is with so many other, I’ll use the word shift. There’s certainly not a fad. It’s certainly not even a movement, but it really is a shift in economic value because the core is that customers increase. Not just consumers, but business customers increasingly want consumers. They’d rather spend their time in places that they value.
Then in and then in buying things like you said, you know citing that research which was mostly by professor Tom Gillevich did most of that research, so they, you know they do want those, the consumers want those business customers want those but companies don’t always recognize that need there they are generally a little slow behind in doing it some lead the way of course you think about Disney and Starbucks and then all these new genres of experiences that are fully in the experience business, right? They were birthed in the experience economy. That gives them a leg up. But you see, you know, like, give an example, grocery stores, right? You think of that as a fairly commoditized industry, you know, it’s a service industry, you’re buying goods, but it’s the but they’re not making the goods, they are merchandising them for you. And there are some that are very good. You know, you’ve got Whole Foods with a lot of the different departments that are curating and so forth and the interactions with people tend to be good. There’s a few like here in Minnesota where I live, Bayerleys and Kowalskis are known for, but it’s generally just known for good service, right? That they have good customer service. And so it makes them better than the normal grocery store that doesn’t.
But I’ll tell you the most vibrant retail experience in the world is a grocery store. And that’s Eataly. Have you ever been to an Eataly? You haven’t been there. you got to go. They’re in New York, Chicago, LA. Most of the major cities are in 10 countries around the world. They are based in Italy. When I first encountered them, first in, I think in New York and then in Chicago.
Richard Owen
No, no.
Joe Pine
I assumed it was an American company because of the name, right? E -A -T -A -L -Y. What a beautiful Americanized name. But it was, is in fact, an Italian company. And their grocery stores are incredibly vibrant. They, you know, you don’t have the straight aisles like you do to a normal grocery store, right? They’re more staked around. You find yourself, you know, while you’re shopping for groceries and all of a sudden you find yourself in line at a cafe or maybe at a restaurant, which they have in there.
They have not just the growth. It’s all, you know, the theme is basically, journey through culinary Italy and they have everything that you can need to be able to cook Italian food. They even have a, a mission feed cooking school inside the grocery store that you can learn to become an Italian chef. You can get better at Italian cooking, which means you’re going to buy more of, of the appliances and the food and everything that they have in the store. And the people watching aspect of it is amazing.
The interactions are amazing. The products are amazing. And it’s just a really a great experience. And it’s a grocery store. So the capability is there in every industry, but most don’t do it.
Richard Owen
How would you respond then to the idea that this could be constructed simply as a question of market segmentation? So if you take the example you just gave of a grocery store, which presumably is premium in terms of its pricing, and you say, that’s great. That addresses a certain segment of the market, a certain amount of disposable income. That might be a very attractive profit pool, but it’s going to be a segment of the market. Meanwhile, one of the big growth stories has been a brand like Lidl.
Which is, you know, again, sort of bare bones, you know, let’s strip things down, go from this warehouse feel, right? So is, do we should look at this through the lens of segments of the market? Is the experience economy tied fundamentally to being a premium economy?
Joe Pine
Right, or Aldi.
No, no, really, it really isn’t. I mean, obviously, the more money you have, the bigger, better, you know, longer experiences you can have. But every socioeconomic level wants experiences. I mean, there are some people that you know very rich people will send spend a million dollars on a birthday party. Right. You know, wealthy people will go to American Girl Place and stay overnight for thousands of dollars.
The middle class will go to Chucky Cheezes or a museum or some other place. But if you don’t have that money, well, you go to a McDonald’s Playland, right? And you just buy burgers and food and the kids get to play and adults get to talk and it’s a great experience. So whatever level you have, there are experiences that will be provided, that will be out there for you. But again, the rich have that big advantage in terms of what they can spend at it.
But it’s also a matter of not market segmentation, but of, I’m trying to think of the right word for it, but of a segmentation of what you want at this time. One of the terms I actually do often use is it’s about the multiple markets within each customer, right? That we want different things at different times.
And increasingly what people want, why they go to a LIDL or an Aldi’s is what my wife goes to, is that in fact we want goods and services to be commoditized, to be bought at the greatest possible convenience and the least possible price in order to spend our hard-earned money and our hard-earned time on the experiences that we value. And that’s the key is that what experiences are is time well spent.
Services, goods and services provide time well saved. You save my time in doing things, but experiences are time well spent. People value the time that they spend with the company and all the things that they are staging for them. So yeah, let’s get the goods and services at the lowest possible price and then we’ll go spend our time. So like, you know, think of Eataly as a date place, right? It’s a venue for dating. You know, know, number one, of meeting people, right, in your socioeconomic class, perhaps.
But also, hey, you know, let’s go to the let’s go to the grocery store for a night out. And you know, you go there, you go to get a cafe to start, you do some shopping, you go to the restaurant, you know, then you have a great meal, then you come out, you check out and you know, you spent three hours and had a wonderful time.
Richard Owen
I guess dating’s changed a bit since my day. But yeah, I totally get your point. Changing subjects for a second, raise the issue of AI. What’s your perspective on the potential or the impact of this technology now on the way in which we think about creating experiences?
Joe Pine
Yeah, several things is one, I think it will be a huge boon to the design of experiences. Right. You know, a lot of experience companies, they use storyboarding as a technique and, you know, where there are people actually drawing all these on a storyboard and trying to move, you know, AI can just do that, you know, beautifully. It can make recommendations and so forth. You got to be careful of it being algorithmic, right? Like Netflix has so much gotten where all of its movies are.
Driven too much by algorithm and not by what humans want, which is another key thing with AI. AI will be great at reducing the cost and the time of the core commodity type interactions so that people, employees can then spend their time on the more intricate interactions and provide a level of human touch. And I’ll mention here one of my favorite examples.
Which actually, well, let me mention something else because it relates to both of these. Well, my favorite examples of an experienced platform is the Ocean Medallion on Princess Cruises from Carnival. And the other thing that AI does is help you better customize to people, help you to understand them as an individual, sift through all the interactions and everything, and be able to develop a profile of who you are and say, OK, this is what you’re going to want. So the Ocean Medallion does that. It’s actually…
You know, it’s a Bluetooth and other device with different methods of communication that you just carry around or you put in a watch band or an appendant around your neck and so forth on the cruise. And then it learns everything about you. And with a goal to providing the best possible services as well as the best possible experience. I mean, yeah, you can pay things for it, but it can even remember things like when you’re on the pool deck with your kids, your favorite drink is an iced tea with no lemon.
When you’re in the bar with your buddies, it’s a mojito. And when you’re in a restaurant with your spouse, it’s a glass of Shiraz. Right. Same customer, multiple markets, even on that same one cruise, depending on where I am and what I’m looking for. And AI can all supercharge that. And John Padgett, who left Disney, the Magic Band project at Disney to join Carnival and do this, the chief experience officer now he’s actually the president of Princess Cruises as well.
You know, always like to talk about what he’s doing. One of the key things he’s doing is he’s freeing up the staff time so they can do what they do best, which is serve customers. And that’s what you do. That’s what I think AI in large measure can do is better customize and free up time that can because humans will, as we saw with COVID again, right? Humans want human interactions.
We are social beings. We don’t want to just be on chat bots and on voice response units. We want to talk to people, particularly when it matters.
Services, goods and services provide time well saved. You save my time in doing things, but experiences are time well spent. People value the time that they spend with the company and all the things that they are staging for them.
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Richard Owen
So it seems to me like the potential that you’re describing, which I agree with completely, is that we’re able to gain efficiencies in the types of tasks where machines and automation are extremely effective, right? And reinvest those efficiencies in making best use of our human capital. Of course, the risk is that companies simply try and pocket the change, right? So to some extent, they say, well, we’re going to be
Joe Pine
Pocket it.
Richard Owen
We’re going to create some efficiencies. We’ll just pocket it. And if anything, we’ll see this as a substitute for human engagement. So we want to dehumanize our offering because this represents an opportunity to replace humans. And that’s the risk, right? At the end of the day, that seems like a fundamental misunderstanding of the opportunity associated with these technologies.
Joe Pine
Exactly. That’s called bad leadership. And that’s the main reason why when you talked earlier, Richard Owen, about five, 10 % people get it, some other large percentage do bits and pieces. And then the great unwashed are out there is the bad leadership that don’t understand what is going on and what the possibilities really are. There’s a classic academic dichotomy with any technology, not just AI, digital technology, smartphones, anything.
Richard Owen
Yeah.
Joe Pine
is you use it to automate people, right? In other words, get rid of them and do their tasks or use it to augment people’s skills and ability. And every technology comes along, you’ve got that. And there’s some things that, yes, you want to automate, but if that’s all you think of, and I think of like most all digital transformation projects, they also are on the automation side and forget about what value could we create of this.
If we augment our people’s abilities to create more value for customers, which then returns to our own revenues and profits.
Richard Owen
Well, I think your point on digital transformation is absolutely right. There’s a tendency to either look at it through the lens of technology. We have technology, therefore we can use it. Or look at it through the lens of simple cost reduction, masquerading this transformation. We’re just trying to eliminate cost structure as opposed to thinking of it as an opportunity to create better products, better services, better experiences.
At cost, or perhaps even associated with cost reduction, but certainly create additional customer value because a lot of the core of what I always thought was your hypothesis around the experience economy was really one of an economic argument, right? At the heart of it, it’s like this is where the money is, right? And companies that are smart about this see this is where the profit pools are going to exist and they’re going to.
Joe Pine
Right.
Richard Owen
Build capabilities to address those profit pools. And to some extent, if you get left behind, you end up getting crammed down into sections of the market where that profit pool is essentially drained. And you simply end up with being in the wrong end of this business value. And so this is fundamentally an economic choice at the end of the day. Go where the opportunities and money is.
Joe Pine
Right. And one of the things I’m chagrined to admit and contemplate, in fact, I’m writing an article on this, is that one of my icons of the experience economy, Starbucks, is now doing that to itself. It’s self -commoditizing itself. Right? I mean, I’ve long talked about, because here’s the economic argument in brief, right? What does a cup of coffee cost?
When you use the beans to make it yourself, right? When you actually buy the beans from farmers. Farmers get two or three cents per cup of coffee. That’s what a commodity is worth. You know, the manufacturers take that coffee, they grind it, roast the package, and put it on a grocery store shelf. Now they get five, ten, maybe fifteen cents per cup of coffee. Haven’t run the numbers lately with all the inflation we have, but you know, order magnitude. And then…
You want the service of somebody making it for you in the vending machine, first of all, or in a corner diner or a bodega, a kiosk, a 7 -Eleven, a Dunkin’ Donuts somewhere. Now you’re a dollar and a half, two, two and a half. But you go to a Starbucks with the ambiance and theater that it has and the amount of time you actually spend in the place enjoying that cup of coffee, reading, socializing, gaming, working, whatever it is. And now you’re spending four or five, six, increasingly seven or eight dollars for a cup of coffee that has only two or three cents in it. But Starbucks new leadership, right, and actually it started in the old leaders, but is increasingly commoditizing itself, right? They’re using technology. They no longer write your name on the cup, and often getting it wrong. We write your name on the cup with your order, right? It goes right from your app to there, or they type it up on the computer, and then it prints out, which they slap on the cup, right?
That’s that’s that’s personalized, but it’s no longer personal. That’s the problem. And it’s so many other interactions. Taking the coffee smells out of the place, taking the comfy chairs out of the place, put it making mobile ordering such a big deal that they that ruins the experience for people who actually do want to to to stay in there. And so so even if you’ve made it, so to speak, and I think there is an experience stage other than Disney, maybe that made it as much as Starbucks.
You still have to be wary of those choices that you make.
Richard Owen
Interesting observation about Starbucks. Back in the 90s, I was in Japan when they opened the very first Starbucks in Tokyo. And I remember an interview with the general manager for Starbucks in Japan. And Japan had a coffee shop on every corner. There wasn’t like there was a shortage of places you could buy coffee. And of course, Japan had this strong tradition of extreme service. People would bow to you as you walk into department stores.
The general manager for Starbucks in Japan said, our differentiation will be our people and the attitude that they exude to customers, which for the Japanese seemed crazy because, look, we’ve invented this. We really understand this. And they were so convinced that they could do a better job of culturally engaging people as they walk through the purchase experience, that that would be a differential for them. And I really think they pulled it off back then.
Joe Pine
Mm-hmm.
Richard Owen
Which in an economy like that was amazing. Seems a long way removed, as you say, from the idea that we’re taking mobile orders, slapping it in a queue somewhere, and at the end of the day, we’re sort of just coming in and literally consuming the core product, not the experience.
Joe Pine
Yeah, yeah.
Right, exactly. And you see that in other industries and you see people that still have that mindset. I always come down, it’s the mindset they have for how they create economic value, for how they treat customers, for what their business is about that prevents them from making that shift from goods and services to experiences.
Richard Owen
So one of the things I wanted to touch on, and I know we’re sort of running a little bit short on time now, but you’re writing now in quite a different way. You’re starting to sort of publish and almost crowdsource your latest book. Tell us a little bit about that and how that’s working out and what you’re learning from the experience.
Joe Pine
Yeah, yeah. Well, so first the subject of the book, which is the economic offering after experiences, right? And that’s where you use experiences as the raw material to guide people to change, to help them achieve their aspiration, right? We call that a transformation, where you transform people. And increasingly people want those transformations. They want help in losing weight and gaining more well -being and being more fit and becoming a better golfer or tennis player or pickleball player or whatever it is, there’s this great desire for change in our lives to help us be who we want to be. And so it’s something that’s actually been there from the very beginning. The last two chapters of The Experience Economy, in fact, talk about transformations. But I was often asked, when are you going to write the full book on it?
And I said, well, one, the world isn’t ready for it. And two, I don’t know enough about it. Right. Well, finally, over the last few years, it’s very clear that the world is ready for it. And I spent a lot of time learning more about it. But so I could have written this book like a year ago and I didn’t. And I said, I just need to get into book writing mode and that. And so I talked to some friends, particularly Eddie Yoon of the Category Pirates, suggested I create a Substack offering where I put out my writing and I get feedback from it and then can adjust what I’m doing and learn more things. But the first reason I do it is as a catalyst, right? There are now over 600 people who are on my Substack. Over about 12 % of those are paying. Most are free where you don’t get everything, but 12 % of those are paying. Normal Substack is 5%. So…
That’s very gratifying. And these people are waiting for, you know, are there because I’m going to write for them. So that catalyst has caused me to much more write than I otherwise would have. In fact, so much I think I’ll be able to get it done this fall and then and publish it sometime next year, hopefully in the spring. And the feedback has been great. You know, there was there was one time I had two different models right here. What developed two different two by twos for types of transformative experiences. They were at odds with each other, right? Didn’t have the same axes. But there was one box that was the same and then one axis, one framework, I really like this box and another framework, I really like this box. And so basically I wrote them both up, I put them out there and I actually had a form to say, should I use both of these? Should I use neither of these? Or should I use this one or should I use that one? Or don’t know, right?
And over 40 % of the people said both. 25 % of the people or so said this one and 12 % said that one, but 25 % said neither. And I’m like, that is not overwhelmingly good results. So it caused me, I wouldn’t want like at least 80 % before I’d say, okay, that’s good. So it caused me to totally rethink things. And I came up with a new framework. I published it on Thursday. By Friday, I got enough results that I said, okay, this…
I think I need to think that bothered me, right? I didn’t have it right. I spent most of the afternoon on Friday, several hours on Saturday, a couple on Sunday. And by Sunday, I had the framework and what it was and spent more time on Monday to refine it. And then it was able to write that up and like the next Thursday, publish it and see what you think. And so that one got overwhelming positives, right? That the people really loved it. So to think that I would have made that decision on my own and have a substandard framework in the book, you know, would have really bothered me. But this because of the Substack, it just made a huge, huge difference.
Richard Owen
Right, right.
Well, it strikes me, and two things. One thing, reflecting on your comment, that ultimately self-actualization has become a sort of catalyst for transformation, right? And again, I think COVID might have been a big accelerant of that, changed people’s attitudes towards their lives. And I think there’s a natural tendency, as you say, personal transformation becomes much more important for people. But also it strikes me that what you’re doing with the book in some ways is you’re creating an experience for the people who are participating in the book. These are your most engaged customers, and they are getting utility and a higher value from their sense of participation and feeling like they’re stakeholders in this exercise, this co -creation value. And in a way, that’s a model for how any company or any business can think about its most valuable customers.
Joe Pine
Right. Right.
Richard Owen
And in fact, one of our guests historically here, Das Naryandas from Harvard, always used to articulate that your best customers were actually the ones who want to co-create product with you. They were the ones that really wanted to be part of that. And I think you’re putting that into practice with the latest work. And I think that’s pretty exciting. I just want to wrap up with one comment, my observation, Joe, because one of the things that I think I mentioned to you was back in the mid 90s, the then CIO at Dell Computer Corporation, Jerry Gregoire, made a dinner speech to a mass group of the Dell executive team and basically told the story of the birthday cake, which if people aren’t familiar with, they need to go back and reference your original book as this wonderful sort of, it’s not really a metaphor, it’s really a sort of example of the migration of a product into a full experience. And,
Joe Pine
Yeah.
Richard Owen
It really prompted, I think, a lot of what we thought of at the time from being an industry that was commodity orientated, a personal computer, which was a very specific device. At the end of the day, a Dell personal computer wasn’t radically different than a compact or an HP computer, Maurice, sorry to say this. It was cheaper than Maurice’s Compaq efforts, but it was nevertheless basically the same product.
But the idea that in a commodity market or a market which was so keenly focused on price actually was still at the end of the day, the profit pools were around building experiences and having us think about how that was trying to fly It made a big impact. And I think that it’s an illustration of how any business, no matter how much it thinks of itself as a commodity business or how much it thinks price competition dominates the equation. It needs to sort of get out of its shell and think that these profit pools are going to exist in the cracks in between where you can actually create real innovation and ideas that change, as you say, change customers’ value perception of you as a brand. And so my personal journey, I have to say, has been highly linked with the work you’ve done over the years. So it’s a great pleasure to have this chance to sort of catch up. And…
Let me say thank you very much for joining us today and also congratulations on the staying power of your original work and the new work, which I’ve been tracking and see the updates. And I think this concept of transformation, even though it’s an overused word, it’s certainly very timely now, I think, for people.
Joe Pine
Well, I appreciate that, Richard Owen. All of those comments, the story and your own personal story, you know, are very gratifying to hear. And it’s a pleasure to be with you today.
We call that a transformation, where you transform people. And increasingly people want those transformations. They want help in losing weight and gaining more well -being and being more fit and becoming a better golfer or tennis player or pickleball player or whatever it is, there’s this great desire for change in our lives to help us be who we want to be.
ABOUT THE CX ICONOCLASTS
Joseph Pine is an internationally acclaimed author, speaker, and management advisor known for his pioneering work on the experience economy. He co-authored the groundbreaking book “The Experience Economy” with James H. Gilmore, which introduced the idea that businesses should engage customers through memorable experiences rather than just providing goods and services. Pine’s work has significantly influenced how companies approach customer engagement and value creation. He is a co-founder of Strategic Horizons LLP, a thinking studio dedicated to helping businesses conceive and design innovative experiences. Pine is also a frequent keynote speaker and has written several other influential books on mass customization and customer experiences.
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